Cavs And Thunder After The Fall

We break down why the Cavaliers getting swept in the Eastern Conference Finals is a loud warning sign, even with Donovan Mitchell putting up solid numbers. We also argue the Thunder should stay patient after a close Game 7 loss to the Spurs, while putting real pressure on Chet Holmgren to show up in big moments. 
• Cavs blowing Game 1 and what a sweep reveals about playoff readiness 
• Why Donovan Mitchell’s ceiling looks like a second option on a title team 
• James Harden’s underperformance and the contract expectations tied to it 
• Evan Mobley’s development timeline plus free-throw and rim protection needs 
• Cleveland’s small forward hole and why it keeps showing up in the playoffs 
• Run it back vs trade ideas for Cleveland including wing upgrades 
• Thunder context after losing to Wembanyama and the Spurs in seven games 
• Why the SGA “flopping” label misses the point 
• Chet Holmgren’s postseason drop and what OKC needs from him 
• Jalen Williams availability concerns and how injuries shape the evaluation 
• Luxury tax questions plus whether OKC needs more forwards 
• Why OKC can still win a title within three seasons 
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Transcript

Welcome And Quick Housekeeping

0:00

What's up everybody? It's your favorite show's favorite show get a bucket. I'm your host, Trey and as usual. Hope you're all having a wonderful, wonderful day. Today we're going to talk about the NBA Conference Finals Losers. But before we do that, please make sure to hit that like and subscribe button. Comment tell anyone who's anyone about the show. Trying to get the ratings up a little bit, you know, just a little bit. And if you wonder where you heard this before, that's because you've been listening with me Monday through Friday at 11 o'clock a.m. Eastern Standard Time. So I greatly appreciate your support.

Cavs Sweep Breakdown And Game One

0:24

But let's go ahead and talk about the two teams that lost in the conference finals. Yes, we understand that the Knicks and the Spurs are going to the finals. But we can still talk about the teams that lost. So let's start off with the Eastern team, which is the Cleveland Cavaliers. Now keep in mind, ladies and gentlemen, I expected the Cavs to actually lose. Okay. I genuinely did. Was it a bad loss to the Knicks? I think so. And keep in mind, right? It was a sweep. Okay? That means they didn't win any games at all. And the telling game was in fact game one. When you're up 22 points, 27 points, whatever the number was, and the Knicks go on a 44 to 11 run. That's bad. Keep in mind your star player, your best player, is in fact Donovan Mitchell. And he's 30 years old, and this was his first conference finals. And it and it and it generated a sweep. And he won't the one that was sweeping people. Like that's bad. That's tough. I consistently say that Donovan Mitchell is a shaky star, meaning you won't win a championship with him as the best player on your team. But at the same breath, ladies and gentlemen, I can't quite say that this loss was on Donovan Mitchell. It just proved my point even more so. He's not going to be the guy to get you over the hump as a first option. Maybe a second option, but not a first. Now keep in mind, versus the Knicks, he actually performed on par with his regular season statistically. He was more efficient, although the free throw numbers did mess up a little bit, but he he did do his thing. 27 points, four rebounds, two assists, 2.5 steals, 0.5 blocks. So that's workable numbers for sure, especially when you're the number one option on the team. I also can't say though, because other people I've made this statement before that Donovan Mitchell's a shaky star, and I keep hearing, well, Donovan Mitchell just didn't have any help. Okay, well, I can't quite say that he didn't have help this season. Or postseason. James Harden did okay during the regular season, could have done better, but did okay. Didn't do the best versus the Knicks for sure. Like, underperformed like a mug. I'm telling you that right now. Like subpar performance. And I'm gonna be honest with you. I mean, he did okay in terms of numbers, but the efficiency wasn't there. The game wasn't there, the aggression, like the defense is never there. And you got to base some of this on the contract that he's gotten. Not to mention, too, he's viewed as what the second, maybe third option on the team. He was brought in to be that role as well, too. So definitely a subpar performance. Evan Mobley, I've already said this. If the Cavs want to win a championship, he has to be their best player, and he's still not the best player on his team on his team. Now, the good thing to note is that Evan Mobley is only 24 years old. So we're about two years away from him entering his prime. And it does take Biggs about five years to develop, and we are at that fifth year. So I mean, maybe next season he improves. You definitely need to improve the free throws, though. Jeez,

Mitchell’s Ceiling And The Help Debate

3:50

God, that is horrendous. 55% from the free throw line versus the Knicks. That's not helping your case out, champ. Also, I would like to see you start cracking about two blocks a game if you can. 1.5 versus the Knicks, 1.8 during the regular season. That's wonderful. That's cool. You have more potential than that, personally. Jared Allen, all right. I wish you had a little bit more motor, right? I I understand you're an undersized center. And sometimes I do wonder should the Cavs look to move on from you, personally. But again, ladies and gentlemen, this Cavs team, while I will say it did not make. Yeah, I'm not really confident about these Cavs. Let's just talk about it. So off top, they still have the same small forward issues. Like they still exist. They ain't got a good one. They got okay ones, but for real for real, they're not worth mentioning in terms of a starter role. Like you could bring in a Dean Wade, sure, but Dean's more of a spot up guy. He did okay against Cade. But that's also because, hell, the Pistons still are trying to figure out well, who can we get to compliment Cade? I think they got Jalen Duran cool. You know, I think Jalen may try to figure some things out over the next couple seasons or so. Denise Jenkins did I, but I think he's more of a six-man personally going forward. So when Dean Wade is guarding Cade, well, guess what? I mean, he's doing okay. Cade also snapped a good part of that series as well, too. So he only did, but so much. So, like, who's your small forward? They ain't got one. Then I'm thinking about the Cavs going forward, the future of the Cavs, because reportedly, hell, they're trying to keep Donovan Mitchell and James Harden for long-term deals. And when you think when you hear that, you may be wondering: could they look to move Evan Mobley as he's the youth piece on this team to try to acquire someone like a Giannis? Or maybe you get rid of Jared Allen and try to bring in someone like Miles Turner. I don't know what they look to do. But again, when I'm thinking about the future of this team moving forward, I'm not sold on the Cavs. We still got the Celtics, the Knicks, and the Pistons, who I believe will be definitively better than these than this Cavs team. And then next season, we got to look at teams like the Hawks, like the Wizards, like the Hornets, and like the Heats. Because they could end up being better than the Cavs. So that's a lot of teams. That's seven teams right there to just worry about if I'm the Cavs. And again, this season deemed them not good enough. Given the team, given the NBA's dynamic, right? Think about it. The Cavs were healthy most of the season. Other teams weren't. They weren't as fortunate. And mind you, you need some luck to win the championship for sure. You do. We can say that the Thunder were lucky, that the Nuggets were injured. Hell, or even that the Spurs were injured, because the Spurs could have potentially gone to the playoffs, and who knows what would have happened. Like there are so many things that factor in that are quote unquote

Cleveland’s Roster Holes And Trade Ideas

6:55

lucky. The Cavs had all that fortune roll their way. They ended up getting to the conference finals. Cool. So I'm glad that they did what they were supposed to do. Kudos. But again, you get swept. Like I personally believe and say stars get you one. Meaning your star players should be able to be good enough to get you at least one game. That should be able to tell in the playoffs. That should be able to tell you their value and that they're worth it. Because sometimes good players just go up against good teams. Shout out Michael Jordan when he went up against the Dagon Celtics. Keep in mind, lost in the first round, but he got swept. There was a lot less games back than there are nowadays. So you lose three games, heard you. Typically, people win a game after that third game, after three games losing. Typically. And the Cavs couldn't do that. Matter of fact, they lost a lead. That's indicative of your stars. So again, when everything kind of went your way, one you didn't dominate during the regular season. If we're being honest, I still believe y'all should have lost to the Pistons. But you made it out there. I'm not going to go into that too too much, just saying that was my personal belief. Not just expectation, but belief based on what I saw during the game. I don't think they're good enough. So starting next season, I do expect them to fall off a little bit, especially as teams start to get better. Now, they could acquire some two-way wings. They could. What happens if they get LeBron James, right? Well, my question is what happens to James Harden then? Now I'm talking about role, because clearly he's gonna stay. But in terms of paper, Braun may have to take a pay cut. And then also I'm wondering about Braun, should he be more defensive-minded? Yeah, he showed that he can still somewhat carry a team, be a quality option for sure. So maybe with the Cavs paired with Donovan Mitchell, who would be the one option? But then James Harden, Braun, y'all the playmakers. And and James, respectfully, ain't a defender. Donovan respectfully, he he's okay. I wouldn't classify him as a defender. So again, ladies and gentlemen, I don't know if that would be a good idea. Although it could work for sure, at least on paper, I have to see how it looks because Donovan Mitchell and James Harden as a duo, I still don't like. Now, if the Bucks want Evan Mobley and they and they're willing to give up Giannis for him, okay, cool. But now I'm starting to wonder, well, one, what else are the Cavs going to give up? Because that's not a fair trade for me if I'm the Bucs fan. But also, right, what happens if Giannis and Jared are on the same team? What's their fit like together? I don't know if they're gonna be able to fit together personally. So that's just me. Andrew Wiggins. Now, Andrew Wiggins is an ideal fit, ladies and gentlemen. I think he he would have to turn, no, no, not have to, would he turn down that $30 million player option that he has with the Miami Heat? That's gonna be a questionable thing right there. But being going back to the team that initially drafted him number one, I think that I honestly I always thought the Cavs never should have got rid of Andrew Wiggins personally. They should have rocked with Braun, Kyrie, and Andrew Wiggins, get it popping with some other bigs and call it a day. But here we are now. Andrew Wiggins is a quality 15 to 20 point per game score, and he can defend, he can move them puppies, he's fairly athletic, and he's still not considered old. He's older for sure, but he's not old. So I think you can work with him. Now, somebody who is old, Chris Middleton, I think too old. He was injured. I'm not like I need him to be a defender. And Chris not really a defender to me. He's more like a spacer nowadays, like a role player, if you will. So I'm not, I don't, I don't know about Chris Middleton, but I can understand if they try to get him. Tobias Harris, similar thing. Interesting fit, could fit in terms of the window that you need for the James Harden and Donovan Mitchell Mobley, uh Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mobley window championship-wise, but does he get the job done? I don't know. Because again, we just saw what he did on this Pistons team. Worked well versus the Magic. The rest of the series, he looked a little subparish. And I'm a big Toby fan, to be clear. So again, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, the Cavs, I'm not really sold on them next year. I'm really truly not. So, should they run it back or should they look to make a trade? I say run it back only because they got to the conference finals, but keep in mind, I'm not gonna be mad if they can make a trade. I just don't know at this point in time what that trade would look like because again, it may end up being that they need to trade Donovan Mitchell. That's just me personally. But again, also say, too, I don't blame the loss all on him. It was a team loss for sure. And I don't say that Donovan Mitchell was the reason why they lost. I'm just saying that he's not the reason why they won either. Now I'm talking about one game. But again, I'm curious what you all think about the Cavs losing. Was it your expectation? Was it a bad loss? Let me

Thunder Loss Context And Run It Back

11:46

know. But we're gonna stop talking about the Cavs. We're gonna talk about the Thunder, which weirdly enough, the Thunder could actually be a shorter conversation than the Cavs conversation, to be honest. Because it's very simple. Should they run it back or should they make a trade? This is the defending champs who just lost game seven to a Victor Wimbanyama-led Spurs, and the Spurs have actually been hooping. Off top, the Spurs beat the breaks off the off the Thunder during the regular season. What, 4-1? So the series easily leaned the Spurs, and you lose in a game seven, a close game seven, where two of your better players aren't playing multiple games. You gotta run it back respectfully. Like all the people who talk about SGA flopping, right? You gotta put a question mark and an act by that word flopping. Because one, he's gaming the refs a little bit, but two, buddy is hooping. You don't average 30 plus points per game for four plus seasons or for four seasons and potentially gonna do it again next year and do it all on flopping. You don't. You don't. There are there are there's a bunch of highlights on a bunch of clips out there that have shown that SGA can hoop and it's not just foul baiting. So please, let's cut that narrative. Does he get fouled? Yes. Does he sometimes sell it? Yes. But we're gonna run it back with the same system for sure. Maybe not the same players, but a good amount of players they're gonna run it

Chet Holmgren Under The Microscope

13:05

back with. The person who does need to be under more of a microscope right now is in fact Chet Holmgren. Because I'm hearing people saying, well, should we trade Chet Holmgren? No, I think you need to have higher, he needs to have higher growth expectations for himself. Think about it. During during the regular season, Chet's averaging 17 points, nine rebounds, two assists, 0.6 steals, 1.9 blocks on 55, 56, 36, 79 splits. Those are very respectable numbers, okay? During the, oh my gosh, during the Spurs run, he averaged 11 points, 7 rebounds, 1 assist, 0.7 steals, 1.1 blocks on I don't even know what the percentages were. They were that horrendous, bro. It was like 51%, 27%, 77%. So it's still kind of closish. But remember that we're losing six points, two rebounds, one assist, gaining a little bit on steals, and then losing almost a block, like almost a block. That's a lot. I ain't gonna lie to you. That that that's kind of bad. And also, if we look at what Wimby was doing, yo, Wimby was Wimby was dominating, very dominant. And a lot, some fans look at Chet as Wimby like. Wimby light. Like, you should be able to do something similar. And that's not what we saw from from Wimby. Like, we didn't see 11.7 rebounds, we saw much more. Easily like 25 and 12, something like that, or nine or eight or something like that. Like, but like he was much more dominant. And I'm not asking you to be dominant, Chet. I'm asking you to be present. And the numbers you gave were not really present given your talent ability. If we're talking about Hartenstein, sure, I'll take these. These aren't bad. But you're Chet Holgren, who was drafted number two overall. We're expecting a little bit more out of you, champ. And not even just statistically, hell, just be present. Like Alex Caruso did a better job versus Wimby than you did. Also, Jalen Williams. Is he injury prone? Regular season, he played 33 out of 82 games. It's not even half the season. Postseason, he played four games out of 15. Almost like it's a little bit more than 25%. That's part of the reason why I say this this was a decent loss. Again, I I I predicted that the Thunder were going to lose. But also, Jalen Williams not playing. One, he didn't play for the majority of the season, and they were still the number one team in the NBA record-wise. But still, he was a big piece, and I wonder if he had played with the Thunder had eventually won. So that's the reason why I'm saying you can run it back next season. Chet can be in that third option, but Chet, you still gotta show up. You still gotta produce more than what you gave personally.

Depth Costs And The Three Year Window

16:02

Now, the big thing is Isaiah Hartenstein, Lou Dort, Kasen Wallace, will any of those players be gone next season due to budget cuts? Because I don't know if the Thunder are gonna want to go into the luxury tax. I don't know. Because they can get very close to doing so. I'm telling you that right now, they gotta they're gonna have they have a lot of people, they have a lot of depth, they're gonna have to start paying folk. And going forward, I'm wondering too, do they need more forwards? Because they are pretty daggone guard heavy. Like, think about it. AJ Mitchell, Jared McCain. You're eventually, if I'm the Thunder, you're gonna have to pay them eventually. You're gonna have to pay them. I personally do so. So are you gonna need more forwards? Because them boys are about 6'3, 6'4 right there. SGA 6'6, Jalen Williams, 6'5, 6'6. So, like, you got some forwards there technically by height, but SGA, you're point guard. Again, ladies and gentlemen, do they need more forwards? I think they could use some. And then when we're talking about future aspects and future expectations of this Thunder Squad, should they run it back? I think so. I think they can actually win another championship within three seasons at minimum. Could be next season, could be the season after that, third season from now. Like they have that type of chemistry. And the only team right now that's really in their way is in fact the Spurs. The Nuggets, you gotta put a question mark around because you gotta see what they do. Jamal Murray, eh. We gotta wait and see what happens. The Wolves, we gotta wait and see what happens with them and Julius Randles. Does McDaniels improve? What happens with Rudy Gobert? They they made some they they made some improvements, I think. Are they better than are they better than the Thunder? We gotta wait and see that one. The Rockets, I wanna see how Fred Van Fleet comes back, and also can they get their team chemistry together? My Lakers, question mark. Because we gotta wait and see what we're gonna do with Braun, Austin Reeves. I don't expect us to that's another discussion for another day. Warriors, what do they do with Jimmy, with KP? There's some question marks around those. But those are the only teams that I even say are even gonna make any noise. Burst the Thunder. You could try to argue the Jazz, but I gotta wait and see what the Jazz look like personally. I personally gotta wait to see what that looked like. But the Thunder can easily, easily win the championship in the next three seasons. So, again, this was more sufficient. I know I told y'all about the Cavs and how everything went right for them. A lot of things actually went fairly wrong for the Thunder this season. And again, they almost made it to the NBA finals after having a target on their back for the majority of the season. And they were the number one team in the NBA record-wise. And you go to a game seven yet again. You barely won through a game seven versus the Pacers prior year, but then you lost in a game seven. Very close wins and losses right there. And remember, there was no Jalen Williams most of the season and playoffs, no AJ Mitchell for about what, three games versus the Spurs. And AJ Mitchell's a hooper, ladies and gentlemen. AJ Mitchell, you truly do need on the squad, especially if you're the Thunder team, because he can relieve Shea Gilders Alexander in moments, but also he can compliment and play alongside FGA too. So that's something to focus on as well, too. Ladies and gentlemen, I think they don't need to change much, to be honest with you. Maybe if they want to adjust some numbers, like budgeting-wise, sure. Heard you. But as a as a roster, yeah, they're cool. They're cool.

Big Swing Trades And Final Takeaways

19:48

Now, here's some things that I would consider if I'm them. I mean, hell, if y'all want to give me yoke, sure. Like, I'll take that. But realistically, Giannis, you would have to lose chat. Now, I'm curious about Giannis and SGA pairing, just because Giannis don't space the flow out that much, then also, what are you gonna do with Hartenstein? I'd have to look and see how that goes. I know how it looks on paper, but I also was kind of worrisome of Giannis and Dame Lillard pairing up a couple seasons ago. I'm a little bit weary of that pairing as well, too. But again, you would have to lose chat for sure. And if I'm the Bucs, respectfully, I'm taking some picks and I'd probably have to try to snag some folk too. Because I I'm not, no, I'm giving up Giannis. I gotta get some people. I gotta get some people. And then also, I would consider Anthony Davis if he weren't so injury prone. I'm telling you right now, I would genuinely look to trade Chet because we're talking about right now. I think AD is more, he has a better chance of guarding Victor Wimbenyama than Chet does, even though he's shorter than Chet. And that's crazy. But he has more athleticism, much more athleticism than Chet. I think he's actually stronger than both Wimby and Chet too. So that factors in as well. And I ain't gonna lie to you, I think Wimby would have to work a little bit harder to score and defend against Anthony Davis. But again, AD's too injury prone. He's also new on the Wizards. They may try to see if it works with him, but hell, who knows? If they can get Chet Holmgren, pair Chet with Alex Starr, give that that they hey. Huh. I know maybe the Wizards would be interested in that. But ladies and gentlemen, that's all I consider in terms of the Thunder. Like off of a realistic trait. I can't think of anybody who would even be available that I'd want to consider. I wouldn't do Sabonis. Like I wouldn't bring on Sabonis personally. That's just me though. It could be a little interesting. Now it could be interesting, actually, but they'd have to give up chat, and I don't know if I'd give up chat for Sabonis personally. Because again, Sabonis and Hartenstein, I don't really think works as an option, but that's another discussion for another day. Laurie Markinen. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if I'm trying to give up chat for Laurie. Even though I think Laurie is the second option on the championship team, that could be another discussion. But I would like to keep chat if I could. So maybe lose Hartenstein. Maybe that can work out. But I'd have to see if the Jazz would be willing to do that personally. But again, that's another discussion for another day. But all in all, the Thunder do not need to make any trades. So again, ladies and gentlemen, I expect the Thunder to run it back next season and the season after that. And the season after that, maybe a few tweaks, but that's about it. But overall, ladies and gentlemen, that does conclude the end of the episode. So I'm curious, what were your thoughts about the Cavs losing and the Thunder losing? Did you expect it? Do you think these were bad losses or good losses? Let me know your thoughts. Hell, let me know your thoughts about each player on the team or or how you like the team to begin with. I'm curious. Because I have heard notions about the Cavs. I have heard notions about the Thunder, like, oh, the Thunder play bad basketball. I have heard that, so I'm curious your thoughts. But, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, that does conclude the end of the episode. So please make sure to like, subscribe, comment, tell anyone who's anyone about the show. My name is Shrey. I'm the host of Good Bucket. I hope you're all having a good one. I'm about to go watch this game one of the NBA Finals today. So take care.