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Legacy vs. Recency: Kareem or Jokic?

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On Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's birthday, we dive deep into the ultimate NBA center debate by comparing Kareem and Nikola Jokic, examining their different playing styles and analyzing which archetype might be superior.

• Kareem's impressive resume includes 19 All-Star appearances, 6 MVPs, 6 championships, and career averages of 25 points, 11 rebounds, 4 assists
• Jokic brings 7 All-Star appearances, 3 MVPs, 1 championship, and career averages of 22 points, 11 rebounds, 7 assists
• In 1v1 matchups, Kareem's two-way ability likely gives him the advantage
• Advanced metrics show Kareem with significantly better defensive ratings (99.4 vs 107.6)
• Jokic dominates offensively with his lowest offensive rating (118) exceeding Kareem's best (112.9)
• The debate centers on whether elite two-way ability beats transcendent offensive impact
• The decision ultimately depends on team construction and what skills you value most in a center

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Speaker 1:

What's up everybody. It's your favorite show's favorite show? Get a Bucket. I'm your host, trey, and, as usual, I hope you're all having a wonderful, wonderful day.

Speaker 1:

Today we're going to talk about, well, nba center archetypes. What's your favorite type? Right, I have a personal preference, just a little personal preference. You might even think it's biased, but let's talk about it. Let's talk about it, but before we talk about it, please make sure you hit that like and subscribe button. Comment. Tell anyone who's anyone about the show.

Speaker 1:

I'm trying to get the ratings up a little bit, just a little bit. But, like I said, nba center. So I have two players that I'm going to talk about specifically. If you have anybody else that y'all want to think about, that's cool, but I'm going to talk about two centers right now. So, nicola Yoki and kareem abdul-jabbar. Shout out, kareem, it's your birthday. Happy birthday, baby. Um. What archetype would you rather have? Yokic or kareem's? Now, yokic's been pretty dominant recently, right, and kareem hell, we know he's been dominant pretty much for all his career.

Speaker 1:

So you, I personally say kareem. I personally say Kareem right off the top. I know a lot of people, though, who would say Yoki because of recency bias, and I do understand that. I do understand that. I think a lot of the time, people pay attention to the assists. Oh yeah, well, yoki is averaging a triple-double. That's because of the assists. Right, that does work. I do hear that I think we're talking about overall. Kareem might be the better player though. So, but again, you might not, you might not believe me, you might not believe me. That is completely OK, let's talk about it. So let's go ahead and start it off with the birthday boy, actually, because I do want to give him his flowers, his credit.

Speaker 1:

So we're going to bring up Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, ladies and gentlemen, and talk about his stats. So, as you can see here on the accolade side on the right-hand corner, buddy has been doing quite well for him, so he did quite well. Hall of Famer for a reason, right. 19-time All-Star, two-time scoring champ, total rebound champion, four-time block champion, six-time NBA champion, 15-time All-Star or NBA 11-time All-Defense Rookie of the Year. Two-times Final MVP, six-time MVP that's a lot, I know.

Speaker 1:

Just right off the top, y'all probably got annoyed at me reading up all his accolades. That tells you, right, there, you are a great player. If somebody listens to your accolades starts to get annoyed. Tremendous job. Now, when we look over here at these stats 25 points, 11 rebounds, four assists, that ain't bad. And if we actually scroll down, let me move this out, no, I'm going to leave that alone. If we scroll down for the, for the career Point nine steals, two point six blocks, that's not bad. Again, ladies and gentlemen, that's not bad. So for Kareem bad Again, ladies and gentlemen, that's not bad. So for Kareem dominant player for his career, and we got to factor into, but he played 20 seasons, right. So shout out to Buddy.

Speaker 1:

Let's look at Nikola Jokic. I know a lot of players, I know a lot of people are saying, oh well, jokic's been pretty dominant too, bro, you got to pull up his stuff, all right, cool. Well, over 10 years we got seven-time all-star, an NBA champion, six-time all-NBA, three-time MVP Career is 22, 11, and seven. That's not bad at all, that is not bad at all. And then, when we're talking about steals, 1.3, and then 0.7 blocks for the career, so again, solid production from Yoki, solid production from Kareem. Both players have been dominant. We stated that before. Right, which one would you take? Again, I'm very curious for you all, ladies, I'm very curious, which one would you all rather have For me? Again, kareem, I'm favoring the two all ladies. I'm very curious, which one would you all rather have For me? Again, kareem, I'm favoring the two-way player. The two-way ability Leans more so for Kareem, and I hear you all. I hear you all you might think, oh well, kareem had better teammates. Maybe even the pace of play might help out Kareem. Not quite.

Speaker 1:

Let's think about it from a 1v1 perspective. I'm picking Kareem, y'all might think, just because Jokic can score on the three-point line. That's cool. Can Jokic actually stop Kareem from scoring his skyhook? I don't know, and I do believe that Kareem can contest Jokic's shots. So again and I'm talking about in the paint too, as well as the perimeter so I got to go 1v1. How about something like 2v2 or 3v3? Because now we're adding more players where yokic's passing does come into play still might favor kareem, because you got a lot of space and so realistically we're talking about switching. Being on block, I can use Kareem. Still, jokic could be viewed as a liability on the defensive end. I don't think Kareem is. So, again, I'm going to favor Kareem in those matchups 5v5, it could get a little trickier because now we're talking about extra schemes and stuff. Jokic could be the point guard or the center for your team. I understand why you might want to have him on your squad. Again, we all need to have a point guard. Everybody does not like my point guard can do what Yokek's doing. My point guard cannot do what Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's doing. So, again, ladies and gentlemen, for me I got to go.

Speaker 1:

Kareem, I know what y'all talking about for those stat heads, right? Well, the stats might lean Yokek. I hear people talk about wind shares all the time. Well, something like wind shares. The best wind share season for yoking, I want to say, is probably right now, and he's throwing like 17.5. 17.05, that's his wind share marker. Okay, kareem's best wind share marker was 25.37. So, again, if you're talking about advanced stats which advanced stats are not everything, but they do matter a little bit they do favor kareem. Keep in mind, too, someone like dirk nowitzki did have a higher windshare rate than yokic. So you might think yokic's the top dog, but we could have a different opinion. But, again, stellar, stellar player, I just favor Kareem.

Speaker 1:

How about when we're talking about, well, defensive stats? Right, because, again, I favor Kareem. If y'all don't, I don't know what to tell you. But between Jokic and Kareem, ladies and gentlemen, we're going to talk about their defensive rating. Again, defense I think we already set off the numbers Favors Kareem. I'm talking about off-the-box scores, I could say eye test.

Speaker 1:

I didn't really watch Kareem growing up, though, so I saw a highlight. It looked like Buddy was a better defender than Jokic. No disrespect too, by the way. There's levels to this. But the data also shows that the best defense, or the career defensive rating, yokic is higher than kareem 107.6 to 99.4. Keep in mind the lower your number for defensive rating, the better off you'll be. So kareem's winning this for the career.

Speaker 1:

Now yokic's number could drop or rise. As he's still playing, I expect it to rise, but again, we'll see. We'll see because it has been dropping over the last couple seasons. People were thinking he was real trash as a defender. Now he gives effort he's not talking about like Luka.

Speaker 1:

Now let's talk about the best defensive rating season. Again, it favors Kareem 90 to 105.3. As y'all can see, this is about a 7 to 8 gap, right? Cool, make sure my math right. Yeah, 7 to 9 gap. 7 to 9 point gap is what we're talking about when we're talking about Kareem and Yoke's career defensive rating and again, it's going to change. Right, the best defensive rating. This could change too. Don't think it's going to change but much 90 to 105. All right, so we're talking about a 15-point difference. That's all right, that's cool, that's cool.

Speaker 1:

So again, ladies and gentlemen, overall comparisons Kareem had the lower defensive rating Should be deemed as the best defensive player out of the two. It's not nothing personal, I can't say it's my personal opinion. Numbers speak for themselves, right? So again, ladies and gentlemen, when we're talking about Nikola Jokic and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, they're two great players, just as levels to this. How about?

Speaker 1:

Let's talk about offensively, because this is where Nikola Jokic does catch up quite nicely. So, in terms of offense, nikola Jokic does have a better offensive rating than Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 125.7 to 115.5. So, right there, we're talking about a 10-point gap between Nikola Jokic and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Offense the higher the number, the better off you'll be. So Kareem is actually losing this battle. Now. Keep in mind, though, jokic could go up or down because, again, remember, he's still playing Kareem's. That's what it is.

Speaker 1:

The best offensive rate of season is what kind of? Gave me a call for pause because Jokic had a 130.4 and Kareem had a 112.9. Ladies and gentlemen, we're talking about in between 17 and 19 points. Now that's kind of wild, that's insane, that hurts.

Speaker 1:

And keep in mind, I'm the person who said NBA play. I believe in two way ability. Elite two way players matters a lot, but if someone's offense matters that much more, like immensely more, all right, they can eclipse a two way player. For me, and this right here is what I'm looking at Like and I that kind of gives me, that is what I'm looking at Like, that kind of gives me that sort of vibe.

Speaker 1:

So, and keep in mind, the worst offensive rating for Yoki has been 118. And the worst for Kareem was 106. I think the best for Kareem was 112. So the worst offensive rating beats Kareem's best offensive rating. That sucks to see. I'm not going to lie to you. I don't like how that reads. That's terrible for me.

Speaker 1:

But if we're talking about the overall comparison, again, jokic wins this matchup. Ladies and gentlemen, it's not as ugly as the best season. I don't think it's this ugly. I don't think it's this ugly. It's cool though. It's a cool comparison and it leans, like I said, yoki. But for me, overall I got to go with the two-way player Because, remember, the defensive advantage does still lean Kareem and it's not like we're talking about and I hate to use this comparison but a Rudy Gobert-esque player.

Speaker 1:

Right, rudy is not the best offensively put player on the court from a center position. He's tall, he can get the job done, he can get a bucket out there, but Kareem was averaging about 25 for his career, ladies and gentlemen, while also getting you elite level rebounding and elite level playmaking for bigs at that time. So, because of all of that, I personally favor a player like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar over a Nikola Jokic. However, I got to say Jokic's offense does give me a cause for pause. So, ladies and gentlemen, pause.

Speaker 1:

So, ladies and gentlemen, even though I got my bias right, because Kareem is a Laker right, also a noob, y'all see the nail here, right Y'all. To the noobs you can say I'm biased, I hear it. That's why I want to know from y'all what do you think, especially after hearing me now you saw the hear me talk. Curious your thoughts. Karima yoki one do? Who do you think is better? And two, which architect would you rather play with? Which architect would you rather have on your team? I'm definitely curious about your thoughts. But, ladies and gentlemen, please make sure that you like, subscribe, comment, comment, tell anyone who's anyone, that it's Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's birthday, but also that it's my show and I'm your host, trey, so I hope you all are having a good one. Thank you all for listening. Take care.